From

Location

Message

Date Posted

canal winchester ohio

I first read about this in the SNGPG newsletter & started looking online trying to get more info on it. And I now know I can get it thru Tom's site ( thanks for keeping up with anything we may need).
But can any growers who used it this past season please post any experiences you had with it this year.
Thanks...Paul

12/28/2009 7:57:47 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Also, can it be used in conjunction with other foliar applications?

12/28/2009 8:33:08 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

It can be used with other Foliar applications

12/28/2009 9:18:03 PM

Belgium

http://www.zeoactive.de/redaktion/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=32&lang=en

12/29/2009 1:16:56 AM

Ohio

Paul here is a write up on CO2 that Tom just sent me that he posted in another thread.
This helped me out alot in trying to understand this new product, well, at least for me its new, others have been using it and kinda keeping it a secret.

CO2
Highly energized particles, sprayed finely onto the leaf surface, are taken up directly through the stomata and converted into carbon dioxide.

CO2 Foliar Fixing Spray can considerably increase the photosynthesis rate, since the essential factor limiting photosynthesis outdoors is the natural CO2 content of the air. This leads to yield increases (up to 50% and more), accompanied by a reduced water requirement (by up to 75%), since with CO2 Foliar Fixing Spray the plants are able to keep the stomata closed longer in case of water stress.

Most plants fail to achieve an optimum level of photosynthesis.

One bonus has been the susceptibility to diseases such as leaf rust, mildew, false mildew, fruit rot, leaf rot etc.

Growers that have used CO2 have experienced:

Improved crop yields, quality and storage properties

Accelerated growth and intensifies green coloration

Increased resistance, growth and vitality

Increased plant stability, frost and drought tolerance and pest resistance

Enhances the supply of essential trace elements to the plants

Reduces the water requirement


http://www.extremepumpkinstore.com/ccp0-prodshow/c02.html

www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Tom Privitera

12/29/2009 5:02:17 AM

Anchorage, Alaska

Lime by any other name is still lime.

12/29/2009 9:24:12 AM

Lloydminster/AB

I'm with Newman. Part of the photosynthesis reaction requires a slight ph change in parts of the leaf.I think success of the product lies there. Cement lime is ground to 2 microns. Is that considered "nano" size? Remember most of the carbon that is your plant comes out of the air. These plants use massive amounts of co2 and spraying a few ounces or even pounds of lime isn't going to go far.

As you might be able to figure out I'm going with a wait and see attitude.

Google nanotoxicity

I love winter

12/29/2009 11:59:35 AM

Pataskala,OH

How can you make the gas stay where you want it to be. Gas has a tendency to rise. lol

12/29/2009 2:00:49 PM

Pataskala,OH

I think the amount of gas you would need for the desired effect would be rediculous. Unless you have a greenhouse. Not to mention the side effect of Al Gore showing up at your house lecturing you on C02. LOL

12/29/2009 2:03:16 PM

canal winchester ohio

Nic, it's not a gas. You spray it in mist form as you would any other foliar program.
No, scratch that..it is in gas form & you need to buy a oxygen tent ASAP!!..WOW...lol

12/29/2009 2:05:40 PM

canal winchester ohio

This idea while relatively new to pumpkin growers has been used for a while with hydrophonic ""POT"" growers to produce larger buds.

12/29/2009 2:11:28 PM

Pataskala,OH

I am reluctant to buy this product especially since it sounds to good to be true. I have been sceptical since Bio-Works ripped me off last year by saying Mill-Stop kills PM. Well a few days after applying it as a preventative almost every night the PM took over. In fact it thrived. Their root shield stuff is good though.

12/29/2009 2:12:31 PM

canal winchester ohio

OK, let the jokes begin. But do a little research before you do.

12/29/2009 2:12:39 PM

canal winchester ohio

Milstop is good for drying up what is on the plant Nic. The leaves will still appear white but the spores are dead. I had very little if any PM this year but it did dry up what I had. I tested it on the plant I try all PM fungicides on, my lilac bush & it dried that up as well. Anyone who has a lilac will tell you it is a great indicator as when PM is approaching your area.
Just a second question though. Rootshield worked great for me, but if it worked great for you why did you get PM?

12/29/2009 2:19:50 PM

canal winchester ohio

My Bad Nic, I got a few things going on outside of this & my last sentence may have come across a "little" bitchy. Your a good kid Hoss & I shouldn't have done that.
..Paul

12/29/2009 2:42:15 PM

Pataskala,OH

Rootsheild is not for PM. I must have not used enough of Mill-Stop. Are you shure you are not thinking of that other stuff Tony was selling?

12/29/2009 3:01:44 PM

canal winchester ohio

What I used this year was rootshield when I buried the vines, Companion as a foliar weekly. I started Milstop late Sept. when a little PM showed up.

12/29/2009 3:18:13 PM

wow,,nice rant guys

back to the intent of this post,

I used this product last year, not for the C02 aspects that are now being taunted in the marketing, but for the direct addition of calcium to the plants stoma in the hopes of changing the actual uptake of said CA to plant tissue. (no fear of nanotoxicity here)

Did it work? Indications from a testing program I was involved in with 11 other growers I believe it did. My plants tissue tested in "the range" all season. (to my knowledge there might have been one other using this stuff)

Did that same added Ca transfer benefit my plants? Suffering a very poor year, a cold/sunless season, I tend to think it helped. For one, in perfect conditions for PM and other disease I had none, zip, zero, until late Sept.when it really no longer mattered.

Was this the result of raising the plants pH? I think perhaps (it is really lime Neumans right on that), I won't stoutly endorse the product because I had also added another biological in my program.

Will I use it again? Yes I will, nano be damned, full speed ahead!

12/29/2009 7:05:16 PM

canal winchester ohio

Thank you for bringing it back & for the info.

12/29/2009 7:23:34 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

I used the product also. I did not keep a control plant. In the past we have always lost at least one fruit to one thing or another. This year all fruit made it to the scale. Similar PM pressure to what Dan said, but I used an extensive fungicide/tea/biological/phosphite regiment. my patch average weight went up about 170 lbs, set a new PB and a WR squash. Did it help...you bet. Will I use it again...yes!

12/30/2009 7:12:50 AM

Cameron,ontario Team Lunatic

Hey Dan
Who used it in your area? I would like to see their results.

We used it in 2009 & were quite surprised by the results. Disease killed off a couple of our plants so that only left us with one plant by the end of July. That one last pumpkin was only 51" in circumference on Day 20, but grew to be the 3rd largest pumpkin, all time. Our PB went from 1187.5# to 1678#. Will we use it again, you bet. Jane already has some. We used it once per week at a rate of 1 tbsp per gallon of water for the months of Aug & Sept. Higher rates can burn young leaves, so keep it to the lighter side. I hope this helps.

Jane & Phil

12/30/2009 8:04:25 AM

southwest MO

Dan,
Do you think irrigation water high in dissolved carbonates sprayed under the canopy would have any similar effects as you mention above?

12/30/2009 1:18:57 PM

Phil email headed your way,

B g,,,,

I have never researched the carbonate thing, my water pH runs to the acid side, so I have no idea

I would say this,,if you do that type of watering, the stoma are really only open and receptive late evening. Would you want to be getting the leaves wet at that time of the day?

I use the mist blower early enough the leaves dry b4 dark.

12/30/2009 7:09:13 PM

Gold Hill, Oregon

interesting i thought my lilacs did good this year but i didn't pay thsat much attention to them cause i was tending to the pumpkin patch. i will try to watch a little closer next year . what do i look for?

12/31/2009 2:23:57 AM

Ontario, Canada.

A micron is one millionth of a metre, or equivalently one thousandth of a millimetre or one thousand nanometres.

A nanometre is equal to one billionth of a meter.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2229/9/45

Co2 foliar spray is the biggest find in the pumpkin growing field in recent years. Is it a magic bullet no. Does it help produce bigger pumpkins yes.

Watch the results in 2010 if you don't believe it.

1/2/2010 10:49:29 AM

Ontario, Canada.

GVGO Pumpkin Science News
By Russ Landry
GPC Vice President.
GVGO West Regional Rep.
Oct 25th 2009.


Lithovit Land

The 2009 passage from summer to fall marked the completion of the first GVGO patch trial. Without fanfare six growers embarked on a summer long experimental assessment to prove a wonderful new substance. Lithovit full of promise and brimming with the very best nano technology of the day is packed with calcium and carbon dioxide.

Nano meaning small as in smaller than the opening of a stomata. Lithovit is able to sit on a waiting leaf ready spring into action and enter the confines of the world inside the envelope. The science of the day confirmed it should work to provide and supply not only calcium to the leaf but Co2 as well. It is these two combinations that team up together to give the leaves a vital edge. Sprayed by foliar to both the top and underside of the leaves Lithovit transforms a stressed plant into an unruffled efficient Plant able to deal with all kinds of climatic conditions.

1/2/2010 10:49:38 AM

Ontario, Canada.

During the heat stressed days of August, Lithovit doused leaves withstand the daily inferno by keeping the stomata tightly closed thereby reducing the demand for cooling moisture and slowing respiration out of the leaves. This response not only conserves moisture within the plant but also can maintain a more constant xylem flow up the calcium river into the fruit. Several growers in the test group have report a crinkled or rippled leaf effect. It is this stomata closing reaction that conserves moisture and allows the plant to carry on with the production of photosynthesis and it’s by products. The plant is therefore able to function more normally while typical respiration occurs.

At night the truly refined nano magic begins as the stomata opens to vent oxygen and take in Co2. Lithovit is drawn deeply into the leaf along with the nano particles of Calcium. That is really Co2 being transported into the leaf. All this extra Co2 allows the plant to respire more slowly conserving valuable moisture. Getting two birds with one stone is the great significance in applying Lithovit. If the story stopped here it would be all well and fine. There’s more in hiding than meets the eye. Here is the expanded list of effects that Lithovit treated plants are thought to be able to meet.

1/2/2010 10:50:02 AM

Ontario, Canada.

1.     Conserve moisture by keeping stomata closed for longer periods.
2.     Direct more xylem flow into the fruit instead of the leaves.
3.     Maintain a stronger sink for a longer time period.
4.     Intake Carbon Dioxide into the leaf.
5.     Increase photosynthesis.
6.     Reduce incidence of Dill Rings.
7.     Reduce incidence of Blossom End Splitting.
8.     Intake Calcium into the leaf.
9.     Delay plant senescence
10. Increased pumpkin size and or weight.

Now these are tall claims for a new product in any form of venture. But all of these are possible. In the limited results we have seen progress but the larger question, remains to be answered. Does it really work? With one world record and one near record I believe the question has been answered. If you still have doubts just ask Jane & Phil Hunt, John Vincent or any of the growers in the trial. 5 of 6 reported personal bests despite the poorest weather conditions! Ontario growers in the modern pumpkin growing era have never seen such challenging conditions; nevertheless growers had their best years. At 1678 Orange and 1236*WR Green are we really that far away from landing GVGO growers at the top of the world wide Pumpkin podium.

Lithovit (CO2) is now provide by Neil Anderson at RTI
Reforestation Technologies International
1341 Dayton Street, Unit G
Salinas, CA 93901
•    Phone: 1-800-RTI-GROW
•    Fax: 1.831.424.1495
•    U.S. and Canada: 1.800.784.4769
•    International: 1.831.424.1494

1/2/2010 10:50:23 AM

Ontario, Canada.

The main reason it works. CO2 is nominally 384 ppm in air, with the RTI C02 it can be applied at levels approaching 100%. The beauty is that as soon as the plant takes in enough particles the stomata close tightly restricting further moisture loss.

Stomata which intake C02 via the nanoparticle are essentially able to remain closed for much longer periods and as a result the plant conserves moisture from normal canopy transpiration which is then directed into other sink and respiratory demand areas of the plant.

The best time to apply is before high temp and low humidity conditions.

1/2/2010 11:11:36 AM

Ontario, Canada.

As far as the delivery of Ca from the leaf to the fruit is concerned. I have yet to see any benefit of Ca mobility within the plant. In fact I have read a study recently that confirms Nano Ca does not move within the plant.

My results from tissue testing confirms this as despite weekly spraying applications using every delivery method of chelataors including the Lithovit product that sadly Ca does not move form the leaf to the fruit.

Instead I will focus on methods for increasing root uptake of Ca

1/2/2010 11:18:20 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Boy genius, irrigation carbonate particles are far too large to have any effect upon stomata intake of Ca. Even in the event they were able to move into the stomata that lack of mobilty of Ca within the plant precludes Dans objectives.

1/2/2010 11:26:01 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Dan, Yes I talked with Neil and my group several times during the 2009 season and we did eventually decide that early evening applications were best based upon normal dicotyledon respiration of stomata.

1/2/2010 11:38:42 AM

canal winchester ohio

Thanks Russ, much appreciated.

1/2/2010 11:46:47 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I've asked a former coworker to run this past their PhD staff because well...lime is lime.

After the holidays they'll chime back in.

Its no secret how I feel about organosilicone surfactants. Their performance is well know, documented and university tested, peer reviewed, yadda yadda . Organosilicones make even poor fungicides work well, sloppy sprays perform like a pro took some time.

Tom's links make a compelling argument that cannot be easily dismissed. I'm looking forward to hearing more about it.

1/2/2010 1:42:57 PM

Adams County

what is the aplication rate of the c02 spray ? every day, once a week, ounce per gal. thanks, Bill

1/6/2010 8:41:38 PM

Southern Sweden

May be used once or several times, At most every
10 - 15 days, separately or in combination with a plant
protection agent. Dosage: 1.5 - 2.0 kg/ha as a 0.5 % solution
(500 g per 100 l of water). It can be applied
using any commercially available pesticide sprayer.

,Albin Helgesson

1/19/2010 3:41:24 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Directions:
12oz covers 2,000 sq ft.
Incorporate 12 oz in 3 gallons of water with suitable organic surfactant (purified, preferably RO water, can suffice).
Spray onto plant using a backpack or hand sprayer; for hydroponic growers, use an adjustable 360 degree sprayer and apply from below the leaves. Aim for the stomata of plant leaves where foliage will obtain most efficient absorption.
Repeat ever 2-3 weeks during vegetative growing period, preferably while lights are on.

1/19/2010 6:36:14 PM

Adams County

thanks Albin , and Tom

1/19/2010 9:12:51 PM